You only hurt the ones you love?

Just curious...Are you a Hobbit?

'Redeem herself?'  HA!  What exactly is 'owed?'  Nada... Now who's being delusional?

Seems to me that you pretty much dominated the N-G Forum as well.  That was before '04?  Way back when, after reading several of your posts, I pm'd you about the 'drivel' thing.  If you'll remember I prefaced that remark by first stating tha you were obviously literate and that we also shared 'some' musical background.

You're doing okay on Facebook, where unlike neighbors and family, you can choose your 'friends,' right?

I got an email from Winston yesterday, as a matter of fact.  I always enjoy her dry humor, and we've shared some memories of past experiences.  But I don't know if I would feel right in mentioning your request.  After all, shes had the ability to peek in and post whenever, and for whatever reason, has chosen not to do so.

Forums offer members the opportunity to post whatever they wish to.  Members are not 'friends' in the true sense and should not be regarded as such.  Some members may know one another in the 'real world,' and may be friends.  But simply being fellow members of a forum doesn't necessarily mean their 'friends.'  Forums are to share opinions or observations.  If another member wants to post their agreement, so be it.  If they want to post a point of disagreement, that's okay too.  'Debates' are a 'good thing.'  It's when they devolve into disagreeable arguments, and a back and forth exchange of personal references is what is considered 'unacceptable behavior' in a mature, civilized forum.  Whether a member wants to get involved in a discussion or debate is strictly voluntary.  Just as there is an on/offf switch on the boob-tube, members who find the direction of the debate too negative for their tastes, no one is forcing them to keep reading it.  Pretty simple.

As for the longevity of forums, I'm sure that you've noticed that when a forum is unilaterally halted, for whatever reason, the members emigrate to another one.  The thing is that over the years one can almost predict how a member will post and how another member will react, and most of all, how many finally don't post anything at all and will 'lurk' instead.  And many, like Winston and myself, remain members (because 'puters never forget) but never visit, for whatever reason. 

In closing I will point out to you that if you feel that you 'had' to leave a forum because 'Buz & Penn' made you feel 'uncomfortable,' well, that's on you.  In your search for a 'friendly, kindler, gentler' forum I suggest you stick with your Facebook 'friends,' forums aren't and should never be a place to feel warm and fuzzy, imho.   

That's strange...She's never mentioned that to me in any of our recent email exchanges....Hmmm....

i'M BAAAACKKK!!!!!  Have you missed me?  I just can't wait to 'lurk' around to see what I've missed.

Like Santa, I'll know who's been good and who's been bad....

BWAHHHHHH !!!!!

Boo!

I buy my few needed groceries at Aldi's, Big Lots, Kmart.  I only eat turkey meat now because of madcow disease in beef and oil + radiation in fish.  Ground turkey is about $1/lb cheaper at Aldi's than CountyMarket.

I only went to Walmart once in the past ten years and that was because they had a few of the last tube TV's on sale, mine had just pooped out (got it at the Gold Rush several years previous).  Many have purposely boycotted WalMart for ideological reasons.  I stay away because of my secret fear of clowns:  http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=9798

My latest concern is that I need the battery in my watch replaced and the only referrals that I've gotten is WallyWorld.  Egad!

Everything is beautiful, in it's own way...

This technology was available ***One Hundred Years*** ago, along with the means to transmit it ***Free!***

Ain't Amerika great?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsYWnOnPIxQ

I almost forgot the question.  Suckle and teat my bosses?  What does that mean?  Seriously though, I know your limits, and understand what your intent is.  So the answer is that I work for a private company that is competing with companies in China, India, Japan, as well as quite a few US companies.  That's a big difference right there since public unions employees aren't competing with employees all over the world.  The owner of my company is not hampered by labor contracts or else we would have gone the way of Heatcraft a long time ago.  There's this thing called 'trust' that my fellow employees have that the owner is doing his very best to make our company survive in a global market.  We don't ask/demand raises, that's a silly thought in today's world of the private sector.  We either accept the raises that he gives or we leave.  Guess what?  I've seen two people leave in the last ten years out of 400 employees.


Hey me, too.  I love my country but hate the government, and also paid, IMHO, more than my share towards your IMRF retirement.  And I don't even get a thank you.


I'd look up a picture you would try to draw?  If you draw like you write I'd really be curious to see that...once.


Me?  Long-winded?  Why?  Because I post correctly spelled words in literally-correct sentences in paragraphs?  Are you trying to hurt my feelings?  You know I'm 'sensitive.'


Suckle and teat myself?  HAHAHAHAHA!!!!  That sounds like some kind of 'Rated R' stuff!

Me long-winded....

Okay, but anywhoo...There's an issue that I've forgotten to point out in my previous posts that needs to be addressed.  I was reminded of it when I was reading about a new documentary concerning the damage that teachers unions have done to our educational system.  http://www.kidsarentcars.com/blog/

Previously, Tuck posted the statement, '...As an employer, which every tax payer is, you want the best employees you can get. In order to get those, you have to pay a decent, living wage....'  I seldom 'assume' things, but it seems that Tuck is implying that unions, private or public, tend to pay a 'decent, living wage.'  And I'll agree with that.  What I don't agree with is the premise that the 'best employees' are those belonging to unions.  In fact, it may be said that just the opposite is true.  When my father got hired by a railroad company, he told me that what turned him off to unions was that, as a junior employee, he was doing the sweating and making less money than the senior employee, who spent most of his time goofing off.  I saw the same thing in the union which I previously posted about.  A new employee would be a model employee until his probationary period was up, then he knew the company would have a tough time firing him for just goofing off.  How many of us oldies hasn't heard the horror stories of what employees at the old GM factory got away with?  Some found a place to nap during working hours, one guy punched out a foreman but kept his job because his union agreed to discard some of the write-ups against GM supervisors in exchange.  Yep...real strong union.

Of course things have changed.  But the first problem I mentioned is germaine to all union employees, public or private.  There is absolutely no incentive to be an excellent worker, if the contract specifies what each member will be making at any point during his/her career.  If the goof-off is treated as an equal to the one who excels, there is no reason to try to excel.  Get my drift?  So, as I said, being a union member who is paid 'a decent, living wage' has no bearing on the capabilty or excellence of his/her work.

Microsoft warns of security flaw that 'affects 900 MILLION people using Internet Explorer'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1352271/Microsoft-security-flaw-affects-900m-people-using-Internet-Explorer.html#ixzz1CrR4KByH

You just did...  

Let me reply to kd...

We'll never agree on this?  Never say 'never'...haven't you ever heard that?  

The phrase, 'suckling from the teat of the taxpayer' is not original, but I thought it sounded pretty neat.  Just as puppies and piglets have to suckle from their mother to get their life-sustaining nourishment, those who have worked and retired in a government position must do the same for their life-sustaining money.

I did a little research on the IMRF after reading your post.  It is the most financially stable of the Illinois pension funds.  Do you know why?  Do you know where your retirement funds come from?  I do.  This is a big reason why half of our property taxes go to the school district.  You might say that property owners in the school district are the momma providing the teat.  Get it?

Now regarding your 'measly' flat rate raises that were acquired through negotiating your contract, were you involved in those negotiations?  Were those amounts in the actual wording of the contract?  Did you read that?  Why did you 'settle' for flat rates rather than percentage?  What percentage of your pay was 25 cents?  40 cents?  50 cents?  Just out of curiousity, do you know how much of a raise the average private sector employee has gotten over the last three years?

Your working hours, vacation time, sick days, holidays etc.  What's your point?

And the bottom line, no matter how stressful or 'life-risking' your job may be, let me ask you this?  How many quit?  Not too many, huh?  I wonder why that is...

No, I've never been involved in contract negotiations.  But the last contract that I voted on, on the advice of my union prez and vice-prez, as well as a union attorney flown in from DC, included wage concessions.  According to them it was the only way the company could stay open.  Didn't do any good, though, they still closed.  How about the last contract that Heatcraft union workers voted on?  The company wanted to switch insurance providers, more out of pocket expenses, no raise.  Well, those brave union workers were po'd plenty.  They threatened to strike.  The company thought it over and agreed to the workers demands.  YAY, they called those tyrant's bluff!  Funny thing though, Heatcraft closed that year.  Who won?

Tuck, ol' buddy...me attack?  I know we've gone through this before.  Do taxes pay for public employees or not?  Yes or no?  Should taxpayers be willing to lower our standard of living so that the standard of living for government employees get better, or not?  Finally, how has having government employee unions benefitted the taxpayer?  When that fire truck and crew report to a house in order to lift someone off the floor, what's being in a union got to do with it?  Have you ever thought about that?  Was that police officer betraying some sort of 'code' when he understood and agreed with my reasoning?
 

 

Right! We will never agree because you are another former public union beneficiary who has always suckled from the teat of taxpayers and deemed it your 'right' as a union 'brother.'  Well, my friend, everything you just posted is basically true, but you're talking about unions in the private sector who were fighting 'the man,'...corporate tyrants. 

You think the original police, firefighter, or school union people were being forced to work an ungodly amount of hours in terrible working conditions?  Different animal, kd, altogether.  Corporations didn't employ any government workers, so your argument as to why public employee unions were needed doesn't apply...at all.  I would imagine, although I don't know for sure, that 'if' there was a legitimate need for unions in the public sector (and keep in mind that the first public employee unions were formed over a hundred years ago), it would be to secure their jobs during a political turnover in administration.  Like a different mayor might want to bring in his friends to replace workers hired by the previous mayor.

Besides the pensions being in the 'red' because politicians ignored them in the previous years, there's a very good reason why public unions will eventually bankrupt every government entity that they work under.  And that's the practice of giving raises based on a percentage, rather than an across-the-board raises.  Now pay attention...  Suppose, for instance, that a person is hired by the government and will be paid $30,000.  The union contract states that he will receive a 3% raise for four years.  The first raise will be $900 (3% of $30,000) and his new income for that year is $30,900.  The second raise will be $927 and his income for that year will be $31,827.  The third raise will be $954.81 and his income will be $32781.81.  Notice that he's not getting a $900 every year?  His income is not going up incrementally (the same amount every year), but exponentially (an increasing amount every year).  If you were to use a chart to plot a line showing that income, it would not be a straight line going up 3%.  The line would 'curve' up 3% every year until it would appear to be staring out at a slight angle and end up appearing to be straight up.  Scary.  Like what's 3% of $300,000?

This system wasn't working too bad as long as the tax base (which pays the public union employee) was rising as fast (3%) or more every year.  But that hasn't happened, has it?  The tax base (businesses and individuals) aren't coming to Danville, or anywhere, they are, in fact leaving.  Ergo, instead of the tax base keeping up with raises demanded by public employee unions, it is shrinking.  So the quandry that the administration finds itself is how can the city budget meet those demands?  How, indeed...  Either raise existing taxes or create new ones, or reduce staff (lay-off workers).  Those are the only two choices if public unions keep demanding raises that cannot be met by the existing tax base.  And this goes for city, county, school district, state and the federal government.

Hopefully, the lurkers who read this will come to a better understanding (if they don't already know) about the problem with this explanatory post.  You know, I had a private conversation with a police officer in which I expressed the exact same thing I did in this post.  Guess what?  He agreed with me.  Individually, a lot of public union employees understand my reasoning, but I would doubt if they would admit it publicly.  And then of course we have the kd's and Tucks who don't give it any serious thought and probably think it unpatriotic to go against their feelings, even if you draw a picture for them.  We'll just continue to 'agree to disagree.'  No need to 'think' that way.

Hey, if you can find a mistake in my logic or reasoning, point it out.  Tell me how I'm mistaken.

I found this article in the C-N archives  http://commercial-news.com/local/x306489618/City-salaries-not-so-simple

Notice some of the comments by aldermen.

The Mayor has just announced a State of Emergency due to the predicted snowstorm for this evening through tomorrow.  If you're parked on a Snow Route you could have your car towed.  Also, the Civic Center will be open this evening through tomorrow to accomodate anyone who has suffered a power outage.