New Danville beltline proposal meets with resistance

[buzorro]

I think you missed my whole point. Right now we can get the road funded without any local matching funds. No tax increase needed to finance it.

Shouldn't the last sentence read, "no 'local' tax increase needed to finance it?"

If I may...

Some 'naysayers' gripe that Ron Paul (sorry, he's the 'standard' in how I judge other politicians) would 'never' vote for a Federal budget that wasn't balanced, but isn't hesitant about bringing home Federal tax dollars to his home district.  His argument is that the Federal budget has already been passed, the tax money is going to go somewhere whether he 'opposes' the budget or not.

That's my round-about way of saying that we won't have to pay local taxes, but it's not 'free money, by a long shot.  We 'will' pay...in the 'end.'  (Ouch!)

BTW, I'm aware of the arguments of both sides and I'm agin' it.  The 'manufacturing sector' of employment continues it's downward slide.  It's now just 9%.  We could build it and 'hope' someone comes?  As Alderman Askren pointed out, we have already had future prospects 'come.'  It isn't the acreage available or infrastructure that keeps them away, it's the Illinois Workmen's Comp laws.

As far as 'maintenance' of the roadway, again, it doesn't matter which of the three government entities that you mentioned is 'responsible' for it.  WE will pay for it...in the...you know...

So should we 'take' whatever we can get?  $45 million?  $30 million?  And just 'spend it?'  Would we be 'fools' not to?

[Cleaning Lady]

I think you missed my whole point. Right now we can get the road funded without any local matching funds. No tax increase needed to finance it.

Shouldn't the last sentence read, "no 'local' tax increase needed to finance it?"

If I may...

Some 'naysayers' gripe that Ron Paul (sorry, he's the 'standard' in how I judge other politicians) would 'never' vote for a Federal budget that wasn't balanced, but isn't hesitant about bringing home Federal tax dollars to his home district.  His argument is that the Federal budget has already been passed, the tax money is going to go somewhere whether he 'opposes' the budget or not.

That's my round-about way of saying that we won't have to pay local taxes, but it's not 'free money, by a long shot.  We 'will' pay...in the 'end.'  (Ouch!)

BTW, I'm aware of the arguments of both sides and I'm agin' it.  The 'manufacturing sector' of employment continues it's downward slide.  It's now just 9%.  We could build it and 'hope' someone comes?  As Alderman Askren pointed out, we have already had future prospects 'come.'  It isn't the acreage available or infrastructure that keeps them away, it's the Illinois Workmen's Comp laws.

As far as 'maintenance' of the roadway, again, it doesn't matter which of the three government entities that you mentioned is 'responsible' for it.  WE will pay for it...in the...you know...

So should we 'take' whatever we can get?  $45 million?  $30 million?  And just 'spend it?'  Would we be 'fools' not to?

Thank you Mr Buzz. You accomplished to say what I Meant.

[skiptown]

New Danville beltline proposal meets with resistance
So....am I understanding this correctly. The 45 million stimulus fund must go to build the beltline or Danville will get nothing at all?

I didn't read it like that at all. It said it would apply for a 45 Million dollar in Stimilus funds to construct the Beltway. We can apply for anything but it doesn't mean we will receive it. I am glad we have a Councilman who is willing to take a stand and say No he won't support it since we are unable to maintain what streets we have. Yes we may be eldgible to get the money to construct but who will fund it to maintain it?
I'm against the Beltway and have ever since it's been proposed.

If the City doesn't apply , it will go elesewhere. If we get the money it must only go for the beltway. If we do't get it we will end up like the Illinois version of Mayberry USA , just a bump in the road with no chance to expand our industrial base and no place for our kids to work. What make people not see the benefits of more new jobs . I think the time has come and is way past the time . We Need It ASAP They city can ask the State to make it a state highway  maybe US 150 Alt or Buss. or even I-74 Busness

[Chazzy]

I thot it was a joke. it shud be..Gosh i got my fingers crossed that it will have an off ramp for WallyWorld..are the politicions gone MAD...they want to spend that money like it "s theirs...i dont go to Duckville any more than i have to,..why dont they keep changing the streets back and forth, taking down stop lights---signs  and putting them up in other places....or,,,,,,,,, they cud maybe fix some of the streets  OR are they are saying          where"s the PORK?

[Terry]

I guess if good old Uncle Sam can give movie producers $246 million to buy film, they can give us a few million for a beltway.  Oh yeah, there's No money to give you an increase in your Social Security benefit for the next 2 years though.  Yes, my friends, we do need a change and it will start with the 2010 elections.

[marigoldhead]

One thing I dont understand ...... why would the city want to take all the traffic away from our wonderful downtown and businesses.  Sounds like a stupic idea to me.  Let see build up around the beltline and have hundreds of empty buildings in the core of danville!!!   Why dont we concentrate on what we have and not what someone is going to make alot of money on.  Yes I went there.  Industry is not falling over backwards to come to danville.  Concentrate on what we have and how we can keep what we have.  Also the beltline is taking people right up where homeowners dont want them.  Ask any homeowner north or newell.  Heck they didnt want a gas station.... you think they want a factory?  Think about it!

[Cap'n Preshoot]

One thing I dont understand ...... why would the city want to take all the traffic away from our wonderful downtown and businesses.  Sounds like a stupic idea to me.  Let see build up around the beltline and have hundreds of empty buildings in the core of danville!!!   Why dont we concentrate on what we have and not what someone is going to make alot of money on.  Yes I went there.  Industry is not falling over backwards to come to danville.  Concentrate on what we have and how we can keep what we have.  Also the beltline is taking people right up where homeowners dont want them.  Ask any homeowner north or newell.  Heck they didnt want a gas station.... you think they want a factory?  Think about it!

You've already got that, haven't you (100's of empty bldgs in the core)?  That started happening when they built The Vilage Mall, pulling shoppers away from the legacy downtown stores.  The concept of a "Beltline" (aka bypass) would be a boon for "through traffic" (persons traveling through town w/no intention of stopping) but to be truly useful for that purpose the new road would need to fully encircle the town w/exits for US136, US150, Ill Rt 1 otherwise you're building a road to nowhere from nowhere, which IMO I-74 is already close to being.

To think that the land will become valuable for businesses to locate along assumes there would be businesses interested.

[skiptown]

Take away from Downtown?
Are you blind? Downtown is not going to suffer. First of all the Belt way is not going to divert that much car traffic . If anything gets by passed it will be our redintial neighborhoods with the semi's going up route one to Chicago via Bownman and Vermilion now.
What can't you folks see? IT WILL BE GOOD FOR US NOT BAD!
To be honest about it I'd rather see us come up with our own money. I voted for Ron Paul but that doesn't mean I can't see a good thing when it's ploped down in our laps.

[Terry]

You make some very good points.  But, most of those 100's of buildings need to be torn down.  They're old, beat up, and would take millions to bring up to standards.  And, no one wants new factories in the immediate downtown area.  All of those old factories along Voorhees St. are in pathetic shape.  Walgreens had to invest over $18 million just to bring its Accounting Center up to some reasonable standard.  They only did that because they already had an established work force in Danville.
Currently, there is no infrastructure or enough land to support any new manufacturing plants.  That is the position of Vermilion Advantage.  If Vermilion County wants to grow, then they must have infrastructure in place.
Also, it was the city, not local residents, who didn't want the gas station.  There are few residents on the north east side which makes it perfect for industrial development.
With 13.2% unemployment in Danville, I doubt that there are too many people who would object if there was the possibility of creating new jobs.

[Cap'n Preshoot]

You make some very good points.  But, most of those 100's of buildings need to be torn down.  They're old, beat up, and would take millions to bring up to standards.  And, no one wants new factories in the immediate downtown area.  All of those old factories along Voorhees St. are in pathetic shape.  Walgreens had to invest over $18 million just to bring its Accounting Center up to some reasonable standard.  They only did that because they already had an established work force in Danville.
Currently, there is no infrastructure or enough land to support any new manufacturing plants.  That is the position of Vermilion Advantage.  If Vermilion County wants to grow, then they must have infrastructure in place.
Also, it was the city, not local residents, who didn't want the gas station.  There are few residents on the north east side which makes it perfect for industrial development.
With 13.2% unemployment in Danville, I doubt that there are too many people who would object if there was the possibility of creating new jobs.

It would also cost millions to tear down those hundreds of old buildings.  As for factories in an unwanted place, I honestly believe you could open a condom factory in the middle of Redden Square right now and if it offered hundreds of good paying jobs there'd be folks lined up waiting to apply.  Your city streets in pathetic condition aren't going to get any better anytime soon by squandering money changing traffic flows on historically One Way streets or by taking out traffic lights or paving over the old Kresge lot. Your city fathers each need to pull their heads out of their collective backsides and do something constructive with the money.

[Terry]

You make some very good points.  But, most of those 100's of buildings need to be torn down.  They're old, beat up, and would take millions to bring up to standards.  And, no one wants new factories in the immediate downtown area.  All of those old factories along Voorhees St. are in pathetic shape.  Walgreens had to invest over $18 million just to bring its Accounting Center up to some reasonable standard.  They only did that because they already had an established work force in Danville.
Currently, there is no infrastructure or enough land to support any new manufacturing plants.  That is the position of Vermilion Advantage.  If Vermilion County wants to grow, then they must have infrastructure in place.
Also, it was the city, not local residents, who didn't want the gas station.  There are few residents on the north east side which makes it perfect for industrial development.
With 13.2% unemployment in Danville, I doubt that there are too many people who would object if there was the possibility of creating new jobs.

It would also cost millions to tear down those hundreds of old buildings.  As for factories in an unwanted place, I honestly believe you could open a condom factory in the middle of Redden Square right now and if it offered hundreds of good paying jobs there'd be folks lined up waiting to apply.  Your city streets in pathetic condition aren't going to get any better anytime soon by squandering money changing traffic flows on historically One Way streets or by taking out traffic lights or paving over the old Kresge lot. Your city fathers each need to pull their heads out of their collective backsides and do something constructive with the money.

All of what you say may be true, but it has nothing to do with the beltline.  I am starting to see some of the city streets being repaved.

[Cleaning Lady]

Nobody is going to change my mind about the Beltway. Why doesn't Danville apply for Federal Stimilus money to help us repair our streets. It's obvious our town has been struggling for many years. It's pointless to blame any one person. We were suppose to have found the solution to it by raising the gasoline tax. Why isn't more road work being done?
When sales tax revenue is down each year the city looks for other alternatives to pay our bills. We practically know all of this by heart. It's year after year, the same old thing! Now the Census is upcoming and we all know there won't be good news from it.

[nancyo]

One thing that has been bothering me since this all came up is the comment by some who are in favor of the beltway.  They keep stating there is lots of room for development along this beltway as well as room to build it in the first place.  Well, that land belongs to someone!  Granted there are many people who would want to sell their property especially if it is just extra "running room" around their home.  But there are also folks who have farmed it for years or bought acreage so they could have a perimeter around them.  Will they be forced to sell under the Eminent Domain laws?  I think that is the name of the status that gives government the right to force a sale when it is considered to be for the good of the city, state or whatever the governing body is. 

[Cleaning Lady]

One thing that has been bothering me since this all came up is the comment by some who are in favor of the beltway.  They keep stating there is lots of room for development along this beltway as well as room to build it in the first place.  Well, that land belongs to someone!  Granted there are many people who would want to sell their property especially if it is just extra "running room" around their home.  But there are also folks who have farmed it for years or bought acreage so they could have a perimeter around them.  Will they be forced to sell under the Eminent Domain laws?  I think that is the name of the status that gives government the right to force a sale when it is considered to be for the good of the city, state or whatever the governing body is. 

Well that's the way I see it Nancy. What also gets me are those who claim their is limited space available for Industry. Well if that's their case then why not explain to me what the purpose of the Beltway is? We have land out east as far to the Illinois Indiana state line. Land available to the Northeast and Southeast yet they say not large enough for Industry.
Danville is in a crisis as is many communities across the nation. We can't have the Build it, They Will Come attitude.
Ofcourse there will be people who will drive on it including myself. If it will get me to my point of destination faster then I will drive it. Develop this land for Industry or retail, or both? If it's for retail then expect declining sales revenue from the businesses whose losses are due to the Beltline. Some will say it will even itself out by both stores sales. Yes that's correct until that retailer goes out of business. This mean loss of tax revenue and a loss of an established business due to nonsense. The same kind of nonsense Danville Leaders gave to the residents of Danville when they constructed the downtown mall. We won't go there because it's a different topic yet the same kind of bungling leadership we have had in Danville over the many years.
We had a decent Mayor in Jones. We had a decent Mayor in Gardner. Roland Craig wasn't that bad. You would have to go back all the way to Girth Hicks to find the next best Mayor.
I don't have the solution to Danville's woes but I am convinced it sure isn't a Beltway. That is like putting the cart before the horse mentality.
It's evident none of us are going to change our minds any time soon. Tell you what, when I do you guys will be the first to know. When I'm wrong I will admit it. Hope nobody is holding their breath on this one.

[Terry]

One thing that has been bothering me since this all came up is the comment by some who are in favor of the beltway.  They keep stating there is lots of room for development along this beltway as well as room to build it in the first place.  Well, that land belongs to someone!  Granted there are many people who would want to sell their property especially if it is just extra "running room" around their home.  But there are also folks who have farmed it for years or bought acreage so they could have a perimeter around them.  Will they be forced to sell under the Eminent Domain laws?  I think that is the name of the status that gives government the right to force a sale when it is considered to be for the good of the city, state or whatever the governing body is. 

Well that's the way I see it Nancy. What also gets me are those who claim their is limited space available for Industry. Well if that's their case then why not explain to me what the purpose of the Beltway is? We have land out east as far to the Illinois Indiana state line. Land available to the Northeast and Southeast yet they say not large enough for Industry.
Danville is in a crisis as is many communities across the nation. We can't have the Build it, They Will Come attitude.
Ofcourse there will be people who will drive on it including myself. If it will get me to my point of destination faster then I will drive it. Develop this land for Industry or retail, or both? If it's for retail then expect declining sales revenue from the businesses whose losses are due to the Beltline. Some will say it will even itself out by both stores sales. Yes that's correct until that retailer goes out of business. This mean loss of tax revenue and a loss of an established business due to nonsense. The same kind of nonsense Danville Leaders gave to the residents of Danville when they constructed the downtown mall. We won't go there because it's a different topic yet the same kind of bungling leadership we have had in Danville over the many years.
We had a decent Mayor in Jones. We had a decent Mayor in Gardner. Roland Craig wasn't that bad. You would have to go back all the way to Girth Hicks to find the next best Mayor.
I don't have the solution to Danville's woes but I am convinced it sure isn't a Beltway. That is like putting the cart before the horse mentality.
It's evident none of us are going to change our minds any time soon. Tell you what, when I do you guys will be the first to know. When I'm wrong I will admit it. Hope nobody is holding their breath on this one.

I understand your disappointment with the direction that Danville has gone over the last several decades.  We all share that pain and wish our economy had fared better.  Fact is, it didn't.  That doesn't mean that we should give up or lose our spirit.  No, this is a time when we must find a way to renew our hope, to energize ourselves and become more determined to fix our problems.  If we accept that we are a 2ND rate city, that's what we will become.  I'm convinced that we're better than that.
We live in a beautiful community, filled with wonderful and caring people.  Neighbors care about each other and want only the best for their friends, relatives, and family.
We must look to the future, we must plan for it, we must do that which is necessary to take advantage of the potential that may come our way.  Maybe, the beltline is part of that future promise.  I don't know for sure that it is, but I do know, if we lose the opportunity and fail to take advantage of anything available, it will cost us in the long run.
Downtown Danville died because of the loss of jobs in manufacturing in our community.  We were a one job town.  When it went down, so did we all.  We lost our focus because we only knew one thing, manufacturing.  When that went, so did retailing.  Those that were left, lost there focus on service and quality and went down with the factories.
When I moved here in 1978, and needed help, retailers told me, " If you didn't buy it here and you need service, go to hell".  How smart was that?  There gone today, mostly because of their smug attitudes.  They've been replaced by the big time guys like Walmart, Best Buy and others, like the Internet retailers.
We need to get with the 20Th century and realize that we must go after what we want.  It will not come to us by sitting on our rear end and waiting for things to get better.  Now is the time to revitalize our city.  Don't stop potential progress.